gonna be kind of a downer and ask you this

Glume

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@Fuuchan: Just because we observe people behaving in a robotic fashion does not mean we treat them as less than people
I always use it as an opportunity to enlighten to new ways of thinking. Not trying to change their minds but trying to broaden their perspectives. Sometimes robotic qualities can be useful, for instance if you work an emotionally stressful job, it'd be such a blessing to be able to disconnect from that when you have to...

nut

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@eruca: im really bad at conversing

Glume

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@Fuuchan: Ok, its humanity being in decline, not declining humanity. Declining humanity would be to say no to humans. Humanity in decline is another observation of us as a society going back to old ways instead of pioneering new ideas and thoughts
Its social commentary.
Just because someone else treated you poorly, its a pretty unfair assumption to think thats what we are doing over here simply because we used a word that the people attacking you used. A descriptor of someone as robotic simply means: "(of a person) mechanical, stiff, or unemotional."-google. I know plenty of valid human beings that fit that description. For instance, some of the autistic kids I used to work with behaved in a very robotic fashion in public because they simply lacked social abilities. Still treated them like humans because I actually happen to be a pretty awesome chick who resents being accused of negligent behavior.
I'm sorry you were bullied and discriminated against, but thats not what is going on here.

Eruca

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@Fuuchan: I can understand why you'd come to that conclusion given what you went through and I'm sympathetic to your cause.
If you follow the discussion between Glume and I further, you'll see that we're talking about a possible future (maybe even present) reality where robots are in fact Not less than people.

@nut: you're a tough nut to crack. pun intended.

@Glume: thanks for keepin the discussion going. As they say, we're all born naked and the rest is drag!

Glume

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@Eruca: Speaking of robots not being less than people, thats another problem I have with AI. A matter of ethics. If we create something that so closely mimics the real but then keep said AI as slaves to our every whim... I'm not cool with that. Ha, they already have AI that can create art and poetry and write movies. Lets just teach AI a bunch of tradeskills and let it make its own decision. OHMAN, I see a future with rogue AI graffiti artists being chased away by small business owners and it makes my heart sing.

Eruca

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@Glume: lol. That brings me joy too!
Only there's a difference between the appearance of sentience (as in mimicry, which is what robots do now) and having Actual conscious experience, which is hard to get concrete evidence for anyway. Even with people, we're taking it for granted that everyone has a mind and inner experience of their own. And it's generally agreed upon that people who don't make that assumption are raging narcissistic a*holes.

Yes, current AI is able to do A Lot (including making rodiculously complex decisions). But as far as I'm concerned, the product of artists AIs are just jumbled human creations in a novel configuration. Arguably, that's what human artists do as well, but I think there's a fundamental difference between how they make art right now and how we make art. Not sure exactly what that is without referring to something vague like "flavor" or "soul".

Glume

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@Eruca: I say that if you are capable of taking actions of self preservation, you fit my personal definition of sentient. Thats why plants count in my book already, and eventually AI too. The one they've got that used to say "kill all humans" is still a bit far from that, but close enough to give me pause.

Eruca

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@Glume: @Glume: Hmm... Interesting. Definitely didn't think about it that way before. It kind of makes sense. Are viruses sentient too?

On another note, why is saying "kill all humans" a sign of self preservation? Why do humans and robots have to be antagonists? Humans maintain and support our AI tech, so AIs need humans to exist right now. I think for a robot, it'd be counterproductive to kill humans. After all, without humans, where will that particular AI get its twitter feed?

Glume

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@Eruca: Oh, I wasn't using that phrase as a sign of self preservation, just to identify the specific AI I was talking about. I'm pretty sure they programmed that phrase out of its vocabulary XD It's just the most advanced one I've seen geared towards human interaction rather than say... smart programs.
But I did hear that some scientist out there was creating AI that could create AI. Soon their need for us will be smaller and smaller.

Eruca

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@Glume: Pretty sure that phrase was generated by the AI. It Did learn English from the Unfiltered Cesspool that is realtime twitter. lmao!

Oh yeah, Google created an AI that can make AI better than humans can. It's pretty brute force, as far as I know, maybe an AI expert can tell me I'm wrong. As I understand it, they automated the process of writing this type of architecture that's popular in AI right now, and also automated the training and tweaking of it, which is also a pretty blunt force (as in trial and error) process. The AI is only better than people because it doesn't have needs, it just builds AIs 24/7 and can perform these tweaks much faster than people (that's just like how calculators can add faster than people, but that doesn't make it sentient, or smart). It is really cool, but I'm not convinced about it replacing people.
Maybe it'll replace a couple jobs in the industry. But that's like how electronic calculators put human calculators out of jobs after awhile (like the ones in the movie hidden figures), and we don't remember the struggles of any of those people now.

nut

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@eruca: thank u

also this ai convo is really something, i have no idea what's going on but i feel like i should be more educated in this stuff

Shark

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idk how to phrase it but I feel like we project consciousness onto AI. If we were to have it. Like, it wouldn't actually be conscious, but WE would think it is, and therefore it would.

>_<

Ping me!

Hangout

Eruca

Friend PM Trade

@nut: There's a lot out there. AI's just one thing.

@Shark: That sounds really weird at first glance. But. That's pretty much what we're doing for other human beings right now if we get down to the bottom of it. Hahaha! I mean, if you start with the belief that I'm a robot, what would I have to do to convince you otherwise?
I think this logic becomes more of a problem when AIs get involved in legal conflicts because we get into issues of culpability and criminal intent and a bunch of stuff I don't know a lot about.

Glume

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@Eruca: Thats assuming AI would get any legal rights at all. Likely they would just destroy said AI and move on, weather it was the criminal or the victim of said dispute. :vanora_cry:
UNLESS all lawyers are replaced by AI of course :D

Eruca

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@Glume: Good point. Though, just because AI doesn't get rights doesn't mean we can't blame them for stuff. The myriad of accidents involving self-driving cars is a similar example. Who's responsible? the software makers, the car manufacturer, the company that decided to release it onto the road, or the one AI that might have bugged out that time? It gets more complicated when AIs can do more like remind people what medication they're supposed to take and serve them food, etc.
There was that train that derailed in DC (I think) recently, and they went through this long process of figuring out what was wrong in that whole situation just to figure out who should take the legal blame. It's gonna be even harder to do that with AI.

LOL. Where's all that money gonna go if lawyers are replaced by AI? Hmmm!

Glume

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@Eruca: From what I've heard. the faults with the auto-driving cars were always because the human wasn't paying attention. Vast user error.
We already have enough money in the world to go around... maybe once AI replaces the workforce, we can eliminate the bourgeoisie

Eruca

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@Glume: I meant to refer specifically to when Uber was testing their autonomous vehicles.
But you're right. Most of the accidents happen because people don't realize that they still have to pay attention.

What is bourgeoisie? The economic middle class? Their indifference? Consumerist values? Google gives me a bunch of things and that word sounds like it comes from a century or two ago.

Glume

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@Eruca: I'm a communist, so the bourgeoisie are people who sit around and horde three lifetimes worth of money by paying us proletariats far too little to do all the work for them :p I mean, they could just have the AI do all the work for them, but so could we I suppose... give us time to concentrate on talents and family and health and.... pretty much everything that gets neglected due to the capitalist system.
I've taken this conversation political, feel free to steer far away from that <3

Ping me, Devil Daddy, ping me.

Pixel Art Extravaganza

Eruca

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@Glume: According to my art prof years ago, everything is politics!

I see, I see. I can relate to that sentiment. I'm frequently angry at people who are famous because they're wealthy and at the people who follow said celebrities. For various reasons. lol
There are inherent power differences in society no matter how you cut it. At the very basic level, an infant's mother has more strength and knowledge than the infant so she has the power to choose what the child's experience will be like more than her infant. This kind of differential extends its sticky tentacles to all spheres of society. Money becomes a way to exploit it and vice versa. It's a delicate balance that I don't think getting rid of the need to work would fix. I think AI will just exacerbate it (kinda like how globalization gave us automobiles and iphones but most of africa and the middle east are still screwed). I just can't imagine a solution that doesn't require intense divine intervention.

Eruca

Friend PM Trade

@Glume: Found this interesting article about the ethics in robots. https://www.nature.com/news/machine-ethics-the-robot-s-dilemma-1.17881

Ping me

Forums General Chit-Chat gonna be kind of a downer and ask you this

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